"philipilihp" (philiphilip)
03/13/2014 at 13:09 • Filed to: Rantlopnik, Cargurus, wagons
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"philipilihp" (philiphilip)
03/13/2014 at 13:09 • Filed to: Rantlopnik, Cargurus, wagons | 0
| 26 |
This is apparently a great question, because !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! does, apparently, not know what a wagon is.
Cargurus. One of my favorite websites to browse cars, since they have that handy dandy overprices/fair deal/good deal scale showing how the price of the car relates to the average. Plus, lots of listings, and good search features.
So this morning I had a few minutes, and wanted to browse all wagons. I select "browse by body style," select "wagon" from the drop down, and voila, behold all the listings, expecting to see a plethora of Jetta Sport wagons, Volvos, a few BMWs and Audis, and, of course, a shit-ton of Subies.
Now let's take a look at what actually showed up:
Chevy HHR - Not a wagon.
Kia Soul - Not a wagon.
Chrysler PT Cruiser - Not a wagon.
Audi A3 - Not a wagon.
Honda friggin' Element. Not a wagon.
Ford E-Series van. Not a wagon.
Ford Transit Connect, Scion xB, Pontiac Vibe, Toyota Matrix, Doug's Nissan Cube...
Well, you get the drift.
WTF, mate?
HammerheadFistpunch
> philipilihp
03/13/2014 at 13:15 |
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This is a will covered topic.
Here is a strait6packracing take
!!! UNKNOWN CONTENT TYPE !!!
Here is a torch take
!!! UNKNOWN CONTENT TYPE !!!
Here is my take
not that I dont love a good debate, and this one always is, but just fair warning.
ddavidn
> philipilihp
03/13/2014 at 13:15 |
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What's your definition of a wagon?
Tekamul
> philipilihp
03/13/2014 at 13:18 |
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Wait.....now I have to ask.
If not a wagon, what are HHRs and PT crusiers? And the A3 five door?
I agree on the soul, xb, vibe, matrix, cube (hb's). And the element (cuv) and E-series.
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philipilihp
> HammerheadFistpunch
03/13/2014 at 13:18 |
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I'm not really looking to debate what is and isn't a wagon, because that is pretty different, person to person, as you clearly point out. It just thought it was frustrating/hilarious that a Buick Roadmaster sedan , an E-series van, and a Honda Element showed up in my wagon search.
Tom McParland
> philipilihp
03/13/2014 at 13:18 |
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I'm gonna say the HHR would qualify as a wagon as it's cargo area behind the seats rivals the Jetta Sportwagen., as for the rest they are 5 door hatchbacks.
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HammerheadFistpunch
> philipilihp
03/13/2014 at 13:21 |
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Gotcha. yeah, epa classifications are weird. We have this debate often, my wife and I, as to what my land cruiser is. She says its an SUV and ONLY and SUV, I call it a truck (not all trucks are pickup trucks) and a wagon (that's whats on my registration and what Toyota would call it). I also had a forester XT that fell into that grey area. Truth is...its not very cut and dry. the HHR could very easily be defined as a wagon, same with the PT cruiser, Audi A3 (we have a Jetta sportwagen that I consider a wagon), Element...all technically classified as a wagon.
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philipilihp
> ddavidn
03/13/2014 at 13:24 |
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This may come off really limited, but for me a true wagon is a sedan or a sedan-size body with a lengthened roof and a hatch door at the back. This is not to say that it is impossible to make a wagon-only model, but this definition does exclude cars like the PT Cruiser, which to me is too tall, as well as the HHR (also too tall), and smaller hatch backs like the A3 and Kia Soul. This is why there is the distinction between hatchback and wagon body. Interestingly, this definition makes the Mazda3 5-door a wagon, though it is mostly referred to as a hatchback... As I said in an earlier reply, my aim was not necessarily to settle upon, or even debate the definition of a wagon, but more to point out how badly car search engines are apparently tagged, that a Buick Roadmaster sedan and E-series van popped up among the wagons.
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philipilihp
> Tekamul
03/13/2014 at 13:26 |
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HHR and PT are interesting cases, but to me they are too high to be wagons. They probably are wagons though, since they primarily carry passengers and are not raised like crossovers... I would almost classify them as minivans without sliding side doors. A la the Mazda5. The A3 to me is just a hatch. Even though Europe now gets an A3 sedan, right?
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ddavidn
> philipilihp
03/13/2014 at 13:27 |
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Gotcha. My definition is very similar. I'd refer to the Mazda3 or the Protege as wagons. Usually I can tell it isn't a "real wagon" if it comes in a two-door version. I don't exclude the HHR and PT Cruiser based on their height, just on their ugliness...
SCR - The Soup Of The Day is Bread
> philipilihp
03/13/2014 at 13:28 |
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I mean I'll put it to you this way, my ZJ Grand Cherokee is, per the NJ DMV a "wagon." The term is broad and finding an exact definition is probably a futile exercise in pedantry.
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philipilihp
> ddavidn
03/13/2014 at 13:28 |
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Haha agree completely! I'm going to make a new class of mini-mini vans and will put the PT and HHR there. They don't deserve to sully the wagon name.
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philipilihp
> SCR - The Soup Of The Day is Bread
03/13/2014 at 13:31 |
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It is. Which is why that is totally not what I am trying to do, especially since the definition according to the DMV (clearly) is very different than it is to regular people, let alone car people.
But a grand cherokee, that's stretching it, even for a government definition. What year is a ZJ? Was that before the term SUV really made it big?
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ddavidn
> philipilihp
03/13/2014 at 13:32 |
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That'll do. It's like the SSR, wouldn't ever consider that a pickup even though it technically is. It's always used like a convertible sports car.
CalzoneGolem
> philipilihp
03/13/2014 at 13:33 |
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I thought this looked nice.
Then I saw this.
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Tekamul
> philipilihp
03/13/2014 at 13:34 |
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A3 is definitely borderline between hatch and wagon. It's difficult to discern if the space behind the rear doors is large enough.
Mazda5 is considered a minivan because of the sliding doors, but without them, it's definitely a wagon. In the US A3 is now sedan only, no more waghatch (<- new term)
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philipilihp
> HammerheadFistpunch
03/13/2014 at 13:34 |
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The Forester, I can see. That is a difficult one, even though Subaru has made it a little more leaning to the SUV side by enlarging and raising it a bit in its newest iteration.
I love land cruisers btw.. So beastly.
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philipilihp
> CalzoneGolem
03/13/2014 at 13:35 |
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Wait a minute..............
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philipilihp
> Tekamul
03/13/2014 at 13:37 |
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NICE. I like the waghatch. Lets make a spectrum of cars with hatches. From smallest to largest: Hatch, waghatch, wagon, mini-mini van (my new term for HHR/PT Cruiser type cars, in which category the Mazda5 for me also belongs), mini van, van.
There. Settled.
MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner
> philipilihp
03/13/2014 at 13:37 |
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The DMV used to classify both of my old blazers as wagon's on my registration...think about that one... (both pictured below, red 4 door in background, and the blue 2 door in foreground)
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CalzoneGolem
> philipilihp
03/13/2014 at 13:38 |
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Strawberry Banana
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philipilihp
> MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner
03/13/2014 at 13:38 |
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Is SUV now an actual class according to the DMV? Because it should be. I guess for DMV anything with a straight roof and a hatch is/was called a wagon...
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HammerheadFistpunch
> philipilihp
03/13/2014 at 13:38 |
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Check out the Cruisin tag on oppo for Land Cruiser fun
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MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner
> philipilihp
03/13/2014 at 13:41 |
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I'm not sure. Just like the one guy said though, that was NJ DMV. I believe it was still called a wagon all the way into Michigan Secretary of State.
I suppose I could check and see how my wife's Jeep Commander is registered here in MI.
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philipilihp
> CalzoneGolem
03/13/2014 at 13:42 |
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If I ever saw this on a car I was looking at, RUN RUN FOR THE HILLS!!
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philipilihp
> HammerheadFistpunch
03/13/2014 at 13:44 |
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If I had ANY legitimate use for it whatsoever, that would be in my driveway. Unfortunately, I don't.
DarrenMR
> philipilihp
03/13/2014 at 20:35 |
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Autotrader does this as well. I set it to only show wagons and it was like nope, nope, nope, nope, nope.